Stew on 06/15/2004:

I second Richards comments about the G3 and G5, however I really recommend you try the G3's lens in teh viewfinder problem. It may seem a non-issue however the number of times I try and shoot in daylight with my current camera (soon to be replaced - I'm in the same boat as you) it's impossible to use the LCD display so the viewfinder becomes a nessecity and missing a chunk of it is a problem that prevented my from choosing a G3 or G5.

Have a glance over the Cannon Digital Rebel, a stonking DSLR (digital SLR), and although its not overly point and click at first its fairly easy to pickup after spending a month with it and after using my mates for a few hours the apst 2 weeks its what I am certainly picking up and over here its only £100 dearer than the G5 so it shouldn't be too bad over there, certainly it'll be a tad bit on the expensive side but it's worth the money in my opinon.

However one piece fo advice which,even if you ignore everything else in my post you must follow this, go to a proper camera shop (an independant might be the best) where they have a good selection of cameras and also sell the lenses and you can browse without some salesman breathign down your neck and toch and feel EVERY camera you can. What fits my hands may not fit yours and many cmaeras are deceptive in size in photos online so have a browse.

Taylor on 06/15/2004:

Have you seen the Canon Powershot S60? It JUST came out, and seems like everything you're looking for. Supposedly great macro quality, new wide-angle lens, etc.

Here's a page on DP Review. There aren't many good reviews yet, though if you wait a week I can give you one — just ordered mine today.

Joshua Zika on 06/15/2004:

It has been my experience that Sony cameras ALWAYS have horrible noise in their pictures. Which is a big deal when you are using them at full res. If you shrink them down for web graphics it's not so bad.

I would look at camera's in this order always.

Olympus > Canon > Nikon

After reading way to many reviews to purchase my S45. I discovered that Olympus always had the best image quality. Then Canon and yada yada. Canon has always offered the best feature / image quality ratio for my tastes. And Olympus camera's just feel funny in my hand not to mention alot run on AA batteries which is silly when we are in the Lithium rechargeable battery age here.

I would definitely explore the Canon Digital Rebel...

Richard on 06/16/2004:

Just to clarify: I never use the LCD to frame a picture so that's not why I downplay the lens in the viewfinder issue. Trust me, I read the dpreview review of the G3 before buying and he mentioned the lens in the viewfinder (only at full or almost full extension) but after handling the camera at B and H in New York I bought it.

In over two years of use (and I mean a lot of use, the world over) and many tens of thousands of shots, the lens in the viewfinder has just not been a problem or even a small issue. It seems anoying in theory but in practice, at least for me, it is not annoying at all.

It's not a "feature" but it's not a camera killer either.

I would think, in looking at a G5, the biggest issue would be noise. I've read that there is no more noise than my G3 and the pictures my friends send me look exceptionally clean.

I like and use the IR controller a lot by the way and I'm not sure if the G5 still comes with it bundled but if it is an extra, I'd get it. Useful not only for group shots you want to be in (and shoot numerous takes of without getting up) but also for the equivalent of a cable release for tripod macro work: you use the camera hands-off. Nice accessory and it was included with the G3.

I have a small lowe pro D res 25AV bag for my G3 and since the G5 is about if not exactly the same size I'd recommend that too.

Even though, like you, I like the S30, I'd stay away from any camera with that form factor if you want to move "up" in that the size of the lens will always be a limitation. The G5's lens will blow your mind by comparison and that nice big lens will let in more light and so, the flash will be used less. Also, the flash is a bit further away from the lens which reduces red-eye somewhat. Best way to reduce red-eye all the way is to get a hotshoe flash like my above mentioned Canon speedlight 420ex although you can use any generic as well. Just make sure it works with the camera.

You can walk into B and H and try all of this stuff.

The other thing I did a lot of research on was the speed of CF cards because that affects how fast the camera flushes the image and can shoot again. dpreview (again) has a test matrix on many cameras and many cards which might be useful.

One reason to go with the above-mentioned 10D or digital rebel (much more than your $500 limit however) is the speed with which each can take multiple pictures. Both cameras have larger built-in buffers that act like motor drives. I tested a 10D and I could hold the shutter down and just let the camera click away. For multiple shots of a moving target (a kid, say) this is valuable. The G5 and G3 will do a bit of this but not like these "real" slrs. However, they're a lot more money, more complex, and bigger and heavier.

I would defintely say away from the Canon Pro1. That one looks like a dog to me. G5 looks like a better camera.

Stew on 06/16/2004:

I had a quick browse round my local camera shop this lunch time and came across the Canon PowerShot S1 IS, Here is a review of it at DPReview.com it's a very nice camera to use, seems to be stable enough and although I didnt have enough time to play with it properly its certainly a candidate on my list of cameras.

Steve on 06/16/2004:

I have the a Canon G5 and really love it. I typically use the LCD when shooting, but in the times that I have used the view finder, the lens obstruction has not been an issue. It is in the corner of the frame and you concentrate on the center of the frame when shooting.

What I really love about the G5 is the hot shoe for a real flash. This has openned up the potential uses for the camera signifcantly (over my previous Olympus that did not have a hot shoe).

The G5 comes standard with an IR remote.

Richard on 06/16/2004:

The S1 is only 3 megapixel and the speed of the lens at either end of the zoom is slower than the G5. I'd say the G5 is a better camera than the S1 for all around use. I do agree with Stew though; a long zoom would be nice. Say, 35mm to 200mm would be nice for those bird shots or in your case, people shots in New York from across the street. I'd go pro1 before S1.

I agree with Steve, the hotshoe is important and should be considered. The S1 lacks this too.

Jonathan on 06/16/2004:

The Nikon 5700 is old. Did you look at the replacement - the 5800?

Ed Hidden on 06/16/2004:

I consider myself an avid camera user... And have played with two of the three you mentioned.

I'd vote for the Canon G5. I have a G2 and love it. (I also have a 10D as my main camera these days).

The 5700 is a good camera, but you didn't list a couple of the other CONs (A coworker has had 3 5700's and now has an 8700). The 5700 does have a good macro mode, but not as good as the others in the coolpix line. Consider it more on par with the G5 macro. The 5700 is all about the zoom! Huge range!!!

Problems with it are #1, quality. I've heard of LOTS of warranty issues with that model. Another big problem is no low-light assist on the flash. My friend has lots of poorly focused indoor light shots because of not having that little feature. That is a BIG factor. They fixed the problem on the 8700 but it's out of the price range you are considering.

The Sony is ok, but I despise MemoryStick.

Jonathan on 06/16/2004:

Sorry, I meant the Nikon Coolpix 8700.

janco on 06/16/2004:

It is difficult to choose or advice one! I had invested in Nikon equipment before and was extremely happy with it. I'm using a coolpix 5700 now and I like it. First I was a bit disapointed because it is not very userfriendly out of the box and you need to invest a bit of time! One of the best features is indeed macro work macro shot and its excelent lens.

My next digicam should probably have manual zoom and focus ability as I don't like to use battery power when zooming and for focussing I think that manual is the best if auto doesn't work.

The sony is definately better in focussing and has manual zoom. However I don't like the look and feel, I think the swivel on the nikon and canon are better.

I have nothing to say about the G5, I think it is also an excelent cam for the money. You probably might want a bigger zoom range.

Ryan C. on 06/16/2004:

I've gotta give my +1 to the Digital Rebel.. hard to beat a true SLR with a p&s (in my opinion.)

Richard on 06/16/2004:

Hey, here's another idea: look around for a G3. Almost the same camera, minus the possibility of noise.

Short of that, the folks who have recommended SLRs are doing so not only for the body but also for the glass and the G3 and G5 and other similar cameras have bigger, faster, better lenes on them than your S30 and everything else being equal that will make a large difference in image quality.

Richard on 06/16/2004:

I "froogled" "canon G3" and they're still around... new. Not cheap either but if you do some searching I'll bet you'd turn one up for well under $500.

Jonathan on 06/16/2004:

I can say that I absolutely hate the feel of the Canon "G" series cameras. They just don't fit well in my hand at all. The Nikon on the other hand seems to fit my hand very well. That may or may not play into your decision.

Brice on 06/16/2004:

While I know it's outside of your price range, I'll have to second some of Stew's comments about the digital rebel. The pictures that I have on my web site don't really even do the camera justice. I had to trim them down considerably from what the camera is capable of doing. At the same time, it's really not worth getting the 10D ($500 more than the digital rebel) as it has the exact same internal parts save a few expensive extras. Both cameras can use all canon EF lenses and have 6.3 megapixels. The most notable downside between the two (and actually useful occassionally) being that the 10D can take 9 rapid shots while the digital rebel can only take 4 because the buffer just isn't big enough.

I would accept the criticism that the camera is rather expensive. In order to have a zoom lense, one must spend about $200 more to get another lense for it. It's also a little big compared to the cameras that people are suggesting. All of that said, however, I wouldn't trade my digital rebel for any one of the other cameras mentioned here.

Richard on 06/16/2004:

The 10D has shutter lockup, very useful for macro photography in an SLR. I don't have either but I've had numerous Nikon film SLRs and all had this feature which made them a lot more stable and quiet for close up work.

The 10D has a metal body, the rebel is plastic (as is my G3 and the G5).

I played with both at B and H for about an hour and if I were going the distance I'd go for the 10D although the Nikon D70 gives both a run for their money.

I suppose in the end it only matters that you get used to the camera, take enough pictures so you know how it works and are comfortable with it. Get used to any camera mentioned here and you can make great pictures.

I hope you'll post what you end up with and of course, share some images.

Stew on 06/17/2004:

The S1 certainly is lacking a bti compared to the G3 and G5 however it is a decent Point & Shoot. As I had said it was only a quick play but it seemed decent enough for non-serious photography and I guess the fact that it's a lot cheaper than the G3 and G5 that the drop in MP's isn't enough to ttempt you to it.

But yeah definatly play with as many cameras as you can.